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Post by Carolina Gravity on Jun 13, 2012 11:55:51 GMT -6
Just to clarify how I come up with the numbers in case anyone is interested. First, to keep it apples to apples so to speak, I use the finishing order for all the big axle classes and the bearing class. At one time I included needles but usually the car count was so small, the Avg was being boosted. I also do not count the hotrod class or the slammer/street class. I take the finishing order and give 25 points for 1st, it reduces by 1 point for each position as I go down the order.25th or worst get an automatic 1 point. An Avg is then calculated for each racer. Then 1 point is added for each league/ race that racer ran that month. Only 1 or 2 have gotten more than 1 point for this. Next, you get 0 extra points for racing 1 class, 1 for racing 2 classes, 2 for racing 3 classes and finally 3 for racing 4+ classes. The racers are then ranked for that month according to their point total. Then the monthly points are Avg to get the final listing. Now if you miss a race, you get a big fat 0 and the Avg drops accordingly. That's it in a nutshell. I started doing this just for fun. Is it right? I don't know. Fair? Close as I can figure.
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Post by Global Derby Society on Jun 13, 2012 18:29:13 GMT -6
Thank you for that info Mr Gravity This thread is open for thoughts, concerns, ideas, changes, adaptations etc etc etc... What is trying to be achieved here is quite difficult. I do not think everyone will be happy no matter which avenue is taken to try and list off the top 10 racers. Ultimately trying to make a majority happy will and has been the goal. The derby community is quite small in relationship to the millions who participate, whether it be Royal Rangers, Awanas, Pinewood Derby etc etc etc... Regardless of what rules, league, pack, district, or club you race for/with, YOU ARE RACING!! And this is all we care about here in the big picture!! Have fun by participating in what ever manner you feel comfortable with!! Thank you all!!
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Jun 14, 2012 8:00:32 GMT -6
So in a nutshell a very few racers, including myself, get the short end of the stick by removing needles from the rankings. If you can arbitrarily omit a certain class from the rankings then the rankings are really invalid. You ran needles a long time John and did it with great success… do you feel you deserved credit for those wins? Did you work hard at getting those wins? Is Stonecold’s wins in Street Rod any less important than another racers win? I don’t think so, he rules that division and deserves credit … By eliminating certain divisions that have less participation you are helping to drive them into non-existence. Racers that look at these rankings and aspire to get on the list will not race in those divisions knowing that no points will be awarded. Pro-Stock, Pro-Mod, HR66 & Street Rod are advertised divisions in the only two leagues currently running and they are just as important as the other divisions. As long as they are advertised and promoted as part of the league circuit they should be included.
I do understand your problem John, but if you feel that omitting a division is ok, then why don’t you just omit the racers in a division that are getting points with filler cars and let the other racers have their points? For instance, if a car is not a needle car and it runs in a needle division it gets no points. I am sure you can tell which cars are filler cars.
If you feel that my wins are unworthy of getting points, even if I race by myself, then we just have a difference of opinion I guess. I understand we are all doing things for the PWD community for free, for fun, but we still need to make the right decisions and do the right thing. Making “the majority happy” isn’t always the right thing to do. I work very hard at this hobby and I don’t think there is currently anybody out there that can beat me in needles. If you aren’t going to give me credit for that then just take me off your list entirely, no hard feelings..
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Post by BSB Racing on Jun 14, 2012 8:42:17 GMT -6
So in a nutshell a very few racers, including myself, get the short end of the stick by removing needles from the rankings. If you can arbitrarily omit a certain class from the rankings then the rankings are really invalid. You ran needles a long time John and did it with great success… do you feel you deserved credit for those wins? Did you work hard at getting those wins? Is Stonecold’s wins in Street Rod any less important than another racers win? I don’t think so, he rules that division and deserves credit … By eliminating certain divisions that have less participation you are helping to drive them into non-existence. Racers that look at these rankings and aspire to get on the list will not race in those divisions knowing that no points will be awarded. Pro-Stock, Pro-Mod, HR66 & Street Rod are advertised divisions in the only two leagues currently running and they are just as important as the other divisions. As long as they are advertised and promoted as part of the league circuit they should be included. I do understand your problem John, but if you feel that omitting a division is ok, then why don’t you just omit the racers in a division that are getting points with filler cars and let the other racers have their points? For instance, if a car is not a needle car and it runs in a needle division it gets no points. I am sure you can tell which cars are filler cars. If you feel that my wins are unworthy of getting points, even if I race by myself, then we just have a difference of opinion I guess. I understand we are all doing things for the PWD community for free, for fun, but we still need to make the right decisions and do the right thing. Making “the majority happy” isn’t always the right thing to do. I work very hard at this hobby and I don’t think there is currently anybody out there that can beat me in needles. If you aren’t going to give me credit for that then just take me off your list entirely, no hard feelings.. Well said, but in reality..........do you really need a list at all? You know where you stand........just look at the points list in the league you run. I know it's a ton of work for you John. Maybe you enjoy doing it? I don't know? It just seems redundant to me. JMO
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Post by Global Derby Society on Jun 14, 2012 9:29:55 GMT -6
Good Points Mr 5Kids.
Your feedback and input is needed! Please do not think or assume it is not. If Carolina has not read this yet I will make sure to bring it to his attention. I do know he is having a very busy summer with his kids and family so I will respectfully just ask for some patience in this matter. I do agree that the changes would only give a representation of big axle builders and leaves out the needle and bearing axle. I do understand where Carolina is coming from in trying to compare apples to apples in order to generate the listings.
The idea for the Global Top 10 is to consider all Nationally advertised Pinewood Derby races as well as the different race divisions. The Global Top 10 is to be a representation of the top builders no matter what the rules or division. The changes make the Top Builder list more of a Top 10 Big Axle ranking. I am not opposed to having say 3 different lists:
Global Top 10 Big Axle Ranking Needle/Bearing Axle Ranking Overall Ranking
I do not think this would make Carolina's job any more difficult as he can just query his results according to Axle divisions. Thank you both, BSB and 5Kids for taking time to speak up and speak your minds. At this point, we will wait for Carolina to catch up on his reading here and see what he has to add to the discussion.
Thank you!!
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Post by BSB Racing on Jun 14, 2012 10:21:20 GMT -6
Thank you both, BSB and 5Kids for taking time to speak up and speak your minds. Thank you!! I spoke up and you are welcome...........not sure about the mind part? [/quote]
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Jun 14, 2012 10:32:27 GMT -6
I don't want to be on a separate list. I want to be on top of "the list". I am guessing most league racers have felt that my ranking is a joke and that has been reflected in Carolina's decision. A ranking without the respect of the racing community is worthless to me. I am not busting my butt for a ranking that is felt by the masses to be undeserved. Take away all of my 2012 needle and HR66 points and let me fall in the ranking I deserve. I will work on the other divisions.... quitter I am not.
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Post by Global Derby Society on Jun 14, 2012 13:45:24 GMT -6
Let's wait for Carolina to have the chance to read up on what peoples interests and concerns.
As for the three list idea, it still would incorporates ALL classes at ALL venues.
There would be a Global Top 10 - OVERALL Best Of The Best (so to speak) There would be a Top 10 Big Axle There would be a Top 10 Small Axle
I appreciate the passion for our expensive little toys!! Responding shows care!!
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Post by Team Casmier Racing on Jun 15, 2012 5:22:50 GMT -6
With then monthly points then being averaged, how far back are results being taken from for that average?
Did the points reset for the new race year in Jan or is it like a 6 month windows than adds the current month and drops the oldest?
TIA
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Post by 5KidsRacing on Jun 15, 2012 6:55:03 GMT -6
With then monthly points then being averaged, how far back are results being taken from for that average? Did the points reset for the new race year in Jan or is it like a 6 month windows than adds the current month and drops the oldest? TIA Beginning of the year...
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